Curse

Paperfly · Oct 07, 2006, 03:20 AM // 03:20

Quote:

OK where are those "new" or "low rank" player who think that 6v6 will help them a easier time to get into ha. Please speak up now. What you think? are you being accepted by higher rank players? Do you still get own by a certain build?

No and yes respectively, of course. I'm fairly indifferent to those particular questions, though.

...Because it's become a lot easier to put PuGs together now that you only need to muster six players. And since I play PuGs more or less exclusively, 6v6 means that I will occasionally play HA. 8v8? Never. I tried it a couple of times and the hassle of assembling a team that no-one will /ragequit outweighed the fun by a considerable margin.

Now, it's plain that PuGs at the level of professionalism that I join (read: none) are never going to take Halls. Doesn't bother me much, I'm in there to fight a couple of rounds and experience some variety in my PvP diet.

/Starting a scrubway. Rank and mics are for sissies! Filling slots with henchies if necessary.

supaet · Oct 07, 2006, 05:35 AM // 05:35

I'm done with topic as well, no point in discuss or making new build in hoh any more. 20 days later, heroes will be here. It is confirmed by Gaile that you could use your heroes in gvg and hoh. That'll screw up whatever pvp in hoh meant before. It may be fun, and I will buy nightfall for sure. But I realized that the pvp experience in guildwars has being changed forever.

Wildkat · Oct 07, 2006, 06:20 AM // 06:20

To quote an earlier post"I was willing to accept the nerfs,skill balances,and was even waiting for an AUCTION house...."This reminds me ambiguosly to a smaller scale of when Sony opened up something called Station exchange(a company supported auction of in game items and characters in the MMPORG game Everquest).Seemed like a quick fix to some and heavy blow to the gaming community to others.Guilds broke up and a lot of people cancelled thier subscriptions to the game.Did Sony benefit from this in the short term and long term?Really do not know.But maintaining interest in a game is vital to long term success and reducing the number of variations in it will cause reduced interest very quickly.Have been watching a lot of the matches on observer.Ranger degen,dual smite,and variations of iway.Was seeing more new builds or modificaions of them in 8v8 recently.

Phrozenflame · Oct 07, 2006, 09:01 AM // 09:01

I've found forming groups is much more easier now, I have a modded conidtion pressure/smite build I ran succesfully during the events and now I ran it successfully yersterday, it was quite good and worked for us.

I just seet hat winning fame is alot more harder now, There should be atleast one more 1 vs 1 map after underworld.

No Noob team is going to get past Broken Tower as it requires capping skills similar to halls etc..what is going to happen is noobs will remain noobs, those who already got thier ranks will rip them apart very easily...then the ranked groups will waste alot of time in Scarred Earth for a joke amount of fame...

The Fame should now be made dependant upon how many teams there are.

Scarred Earth should offer fame for defeating the one team, maybe 2 fame and 3 fame for defeating the second team.

Its the most hated map.

Anet, your decision of 6 vs 6 is right, but the way you handled the maps makes it look miserable. Caps on 2nd map? You guys really think newbies will ever get past it?

They may win underworld but will n ot go past maximum scarred earth.

Yes I supported 6 v 6 decision but with these kinds of maps, I say no ty, 8 v 8 and old maps is better.

unlesswe get 6 v 6 with better maps and more fairer fame distribution. I hope you reading this Gaile.

Maps is a major problem. Not 6 v 6.

dare49devil · Oct 07, 2006, 02:46 PM // 14:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phrozenflame

I've found forming groups is much more easier now, I have a modded conidtion pressure/smite build I ran succesfully during the events and now I ran it successfully yersterday, it was quite good and worked for us.

I just seet hat winning fame is alot more harder now, There should be atleast one more 1 vs 1 map after underworld.

No Noob team is going to get past Broken Tower as it requires capping skills similar to halls etc..what is going to happen is noobs will remain noobs, those who already got thier ranks will rip them apart very easily...then the ranked groups will waste alot of time in Scarred Earth for a joke amount of fame...

The Fame should now be made dependant upon how many teams there are.

Scarred Earth should offer fame for defeating the one team, maybe 2 fame and 3 fame for defeating the second team.

Its the most hated map.

Anet, your decision of 6 vs 6 is right, but the way you handled the maps makes it look miserable. Caps on 2nd map? You guys really think newbies will ever get past it?

They may win underworld but will n ot go past maximum scarred earth.

Yes I supported 6 v 6 decision but with these kinds of maps, I say no ty, 8 v 8 and old maps is better.

unlesswe get 6 v 6 with better maps and more fairer fame distribution. I hope you reading this Gaile.

Maps is a major problem. Not 6 v 6.

You, obviously are a new tomber? Because experienced or long-term pvpers not do not mind Scarred Earth. Broken Tower is not the hated map. With an alter 1v1v1 so early, there is a high chance that "new/noob teams" will be there which will screw up all tatics...

Broken Tower is more of a toos-up, depends really.

Scarred Earth is fine now. I do not know why they took out Burial Mounds. I agree that it is harsh going from UW then straight to Broken.

I do not mind the fame distribution...But that is because I am not forced to try to get rank x,x,x.

I was always against the 6v6, it just...killed tombs. Made it more noob-friendly, and, at the same time, it shuts down noobs at Broken Tower.

Now every build will contain a CG or Migraine. And by reducing the player count, of course now you have a smaller variety of builds to run, with 8v8 while running a three monk backline, you can try many many builds with five players.

With 6v6 it greatly reduces the swapping around of characters.

Xioden · Oct 07, 2006, 04:17 PM // 16:17

Well if nothing else Slaughtering the pickup teams in Underworld is fun for a bit.. But 15:0 most being won in less than 3 minutes is quite nice.

Broken Tower, again nice, you get some good teams occasionally but going up against 2 teams who are running around with no idea what to do just makes it pathetically easy.

Scarred earth is where it gets interesting.. Don't think I was in one game there without some very high ranking guild or well-known team-leader-lead team. Had a number of very very good fights when it was 3 teams, had a few very fun 2v1 fights with us on the recieving end. Later matches though are FUN. There really aren't any scrub teams getting skips so you know you're going to be having a good fight.

But one big problem they REALLY need to take care of is runners.. It's to the point it's something you HAVE to take into account for damn builds now when you've got an idiot running around in circles, even worse when a guy jumps into a random group with nothing but run skills/evasion stances.. It's one thing if for dealing with relic maps you have skills to snare the runner and such.. but when you go for a different tactic on them and don't have a single snare skill or ranged degen there is NOTHING you can do, We resigned 2 matches against these idiots where otherwise the team was down and out in under 2 minutes on underworld and we spent 5+ minutes trying to catch guy.. It's even worse on Scarred earth where theres absolutely no way to bodyblock the guy and they can just endlessly run in circles.

But it is Bloody annoying as hell..

J snukka · Oct 07, 2006, 04:56 PM // 16:56

if anything why doesn't anet make HA 10vs10 or 12vs12. I know we have Alliance battles that have 12vs12 but imagine getting set up for a huge battle organized and massive fun. You might say that it will take forever to build a team, but think about it. Now we have more professions and we can bring in heroes. Heroes cut party formation time by alot. so 10vs10 or 12vs12 in HA would be awesome.

What do you think???

midnight caretaker · Oct 07, 2006, 05:33 PM // 17:33

6v6 or 8v8

really makes no difference people will still play and still complain.

Something that would be nice to shake things up would be having different types of matches to hold halls. There could be a relic run one time, next an altar holding, next kill em all and keep it random.

It would also be nice to have grps in HA that enter randomly like RA, there could be an incentive for this like double fame (perhaps triple becuase this would be tough as hell) for being in these types of grps.

Anyways thanks anet for at least trying and listening to people suggestions. I have enjoyed just about every weekend and update made if not just for the playing aspectof it but also these outrageously funny forums. No matter what you do there are always going to be whiners, but in my opinion keep up the good/hard work.

Inner Salbat · Oct 07, 2006, 10:37 PM // 22:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by supaet

OK, you win, 6v6 gvg next. 8v8 is broken.

Huge differents between HA and GvG, the styles of play in HA will not get you to rank 1, while they may boost your rank to within reach of it for awhile /maybe/ the ultimate result is the same, HA builds in GvG will just get owned, don't believe me go look at the final match, from the GWFC iQ vs WM, they ran a gimmik for match 3 I think it was, and they just had there butts handed to them.

But never fear, your gimmiks still work in HA you can still reduce a party member to 0hp in less than microsecond, the UNBALANCE is still available for you to farm your fame points, (I have r3 it took 15 months of running non-gimmiks to get it, and my RANK means something).

Quote:

Originally Posted by explodemyheart

I've been trying to save judgment until it actually happened and now that it happened - ugh. Smites everywhere so far.

Maybe I should wait a few days in hopes that the smites will calm down and people will actually start thinking to put together builds.

Not pleased.

Don't hold your breath there, balance and fare play because ArenaNet or another company cannot provide proper balance has never been a good point ever, people will run what wins the most or has the most success, they don't care if it's a fare fight, they don't care if there ruin a game or someone elses game by doing so either.

The only way you'll ever get change is if ArenaNet starts acting with more dominance and force, and start printing up messages before you enter battle like.. "You cannot enter battle, too many skill bars the same", or some such.

Caleb · Oct 07, 2006, 10:45 PM // 22:45

I'm enjoying the changes so far, I give it a thumbs up!

explodemyheart · Oct 07, 2006, 10:53 PM // 22:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inner Salbat

Don't hold your breath there, balance and fare play because ArenaNet or another company cannot provide proper balance has never been a good point ever, people will run what wins the most or has the most success, they don't care if it's a fare fight, they don't care if there ruin a game or someone elses game by doing so either.

Tell that to all of the people who sat here page after page and welcomed and argued the change because it would do away with builds like this.

supaet · Oct 07, 2006, 10:54 PM // 22:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inner Salbat

Huge differents between HA and GvG, the styles of play in HA will not get you to rank 1, while they may boost your rank to within reach of it for awhile /maybe/ the ultimate result is the same, HA builds in GvG will just get owned, don't believe me go look at the final match, from the GWFC iQ vs WM, they ran a gimmik for match 3 I think it was, and they just had there butts handed to them.

But never fear, your gimmiks still work in HA you can still reduce a party member to 0hp in less than microsecond, the UNBALANCE is still available for you to farm your fame points, (I have r3 it took 15 months of running non-gimmiks to get it, and my RANK means something).

What the hell man, what makes your damm builds non-gimmick and mine gimmick? It's never MY gimmick builds. You're not reading my post at all, I am never fear that I cannot get fame in hoh. I was just saying you're WRONG by saying 8v8 is broken because ONE monk cannot heal 8 people spiking on one target. GO find the message. YOU SAID IT. I play hoh for fun not for fame. YES, your r3 means something. Means that you sucks. My rank 6 means nothing. GG

Inner Salbat · Oct 07, 2006, 11:48 PM // 23:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by supaet

What the hell man, what makes your damm builds non-gimmick and mine gimmick? It's never MY gimmick builds. You're not reading my post at all, I am never fear that I cannot get fame in hoh. I was just saying you're WRONG by saying 8v8 is broken because ONE monk cannot heal 8 people spiking on one target. GO find the message. YOU SAID IT. I play hoh for fun not for fame. YES, your r3 means something. Means that you sucks. My rank 6 means nothing. GG

I'll fraps it sometime, and post it, 1 monk cannot react to a single spiked person, sorry I mean't my rank 3 means something to (ME), because I earned it, your rank 6 or whatever you want to call that pile of crap you call a rank, don't mean jack you farmer.

tomcruisejr · Oct 08, 2006, 12:05 AM // 00:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by J snukka

if anything why doesn't anet make HA 10vs10 or 12vs12

maybe itll be better if HA is 1 vs 1 so you dont blame your team mates if you lose.

supaet · Oct 08, 2006, 01:50 AM // 01:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inner Salbat

I'll fraps it sometime, and post it, 1 monk cannot react to a single spiked person, sorry I mean't my rank 3 means something to (ME), because I earned it, your rank 6 or whatever you want to call that pile of crap you call a rank, don't mean jack you farmer.

Of course one monk cannot, but you said that's something wrong with 8v8, so I say 8v8 in gvg is bad too base on the things you say. But then you tell me gvg is different. But isn't gvg still 8v8, and one monk still cannot react to a single spiked person? you're contradicting yourself, that's what I'm saying.

Again, what makes think that I FARM fame? Just because I'm not rank 3 like you? Where the hell you get that? Did I say something that made you think that I farm fame? What makes you think that your rank 3 is "meaningful"? What makes you think that your rank3 means more than mine or anyone's rank6?

Inner Salbat · Oct 08, 2006, 11:21 AM // 11:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by supaet

Of course one monk cannot, but you said that's something wrong with 8v8, so I say 8v8 in gvg is bad too base on the things you say. But then you tell me gvg is different. But isn't gvg still 8v8, and one monk still cannot react to a single spiked person? you're contradicting yourself, that's what I'm saying.

Again, what makes think that I FARM fame? Just because I'm not rank 3 like you? Where the hell you get that? Did I say something that made you think that I farm fame? What makes you think that your rank 3 is "meaningful"? What makes you think that your rank3 means more than mine or anyone's rank6?

It's not just something wrong with 8v8 or 6v6, you shouldn't be able to throw out that amount of dmg, without some chance of being able counter it, the quite reasonable asumption that the change would effect this dmg output to levels that could bring the game into a position that was at the very least able to be playable vs.

Which it isn't which means it's a problem over all with skill balance entirely, which means Izzy needs to get his butt off those donuts and do some work for a change, even if that change is unpopular with the pack of farming spike morons that are out there.

But then what can you expect from ArenaNet really, when they don't listen to there PvP players in there alpha/beta tester teams, and instead listen
exclusively to the PvE crowd, of course your going to get this sort of crap.

The reason there is/was so much happyness about 6v6 HA is likely because people are stick of not having a chance with crappy builds that are made to expliot a broken PvP game play, in HA.

As for fame, well I believe you said you was rank 6, the chances are you didn't take 15months to get your rank 6, I took 15 months to get to rank 3, because I refused to run gimmiks, and ran stuff that our guild thought up instead, or even ran types of builds but we've always modified them slightly, in verious degrees of sucess and failure.

It doesn't have to mean anything to you, as I said it means something to (ME) because I earned it, and I didn't earn it by pressing 1 2 & 3, and abusing a meta game that is about as balanced as right and wrong.

Vaga · Oct 08, 2006, 03:26 PM // 15:26

They didn't make Ha 6v6 because there was too much damage, they did it because people were running rubbish builds and there was no metagame in HA. For example for the past 6 months people have just been running the same stuff in HA whether it be iway, bloodspike whatever. In GvG over the past 6 months its gone from gale warriors to e-denial to smite to condition pressure and now you could almost say spike builds.

With 6 characters builds are now made by putting in defense against things your most likely to come up against, making sure your build has a way of killing things at a decent pace, and then throwing in as much stuff as possible to disrupt ghostly's on capping maps.

This is compared to 8 character builds where you could bring a counter for every build that you were going to face, have enough damage to kill things, and then dedicate 2+ characters just to interupting the ghostly (eg. choking gas).

What Anet has done to the maps is kind of weird. It was popular opinion that maps were to blame for 8v8 not working in HA. However it seems as though these are the type of maps Anet wants HA to have so they aren't going to change them. They work in 6v6, although capping maps are still very luck dependant when its 3 good teams going at it and a lot of it comes down to politics.

The maps are more fun, theres no denying that Broken tower is very fun with 3 teams and that scarred earth is also a lot of fun due to the gank factor. However, the maps are by no means perfect. Broken tower can be a tough map to win, and it takes anywhere from 5-10 minutes of playing just to get there. Considering the time it takes to get there, you now have to beat 2 other teams, both teams carrying the possibility that their builds are superior on this specific map. So there is a reasonable chance you will lose even if you have the best 6 players in the world. Even if you overcome this and win, you get 2 fame. This is practically nothing even at rank 0 it's only a small percentage of the fame you need to gank rank 1. Then you have scarred earth, a 4 team battle for a massive 3 fame, with once again the possibility that one of the two teams you have to fight will simply just outbuild you. To add another factor whilst your first battle might be an even match, a third team can just run in and take advantage of you both and win so you have to start over.

I really could care less about my rank and I only play HA for fun. Tombs with 6v6 and the new map rotation is far harder to get fame when the old 8v8 and maps. It's ridiculous how little fame you can get for defeating multiple teams despite being reasonably far into the map rotation. Another thing is that you can't actually get to HA and know that you have a decent chance of holding. Its basically a 1/3 chance of winning depending on how good or bad the other two teams are, compared to 8v8 where you could easily have everyone in your team at 1k+ hp and have 7 monks healing each other to win multiple times.

I think at the very least they need to bring burial mounds back, but I still think fame per map will be lacking. Perhaps nightfall will bring about a lot stronger builds that have the capacity to hold and whatnot and it will allow people to actually get decent amounts of fame.

B Ephekt · Oct 08, 2006, 07:18 PM // 19:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inner Salbat

I'll fraps it sometime, and post it, 1 monk cannot react to a single spiked person, sorry I mean't my rank 3 means something to (ME), because I earned it, your rank 6 or whatever you want to call that pile of crap you call a rank, don't mean jack you farmer.

Any decent group will have a copy of Prot Spirit and Infuse. The prot monk keeps key people protted and puts a prot spirit on the person beign spiked, the infuser infuses targets being spiked. How hard is that? If you can't find monks that can do simple things like that, maybe you shound't do tombs?

And be more arrogant about your little rank 3 please.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inner Salbat

It's not just something wrong with 8v8 or 6v6, you shouldn't be able to throw out that amount of dmg, without some chance of being able counter it, the quite reasonable asumption that the change would effect this dmg output to levels that could bring the game into a position that was at the very least able to be playable vs.

Prot spirit and preprot, k thx. Even in 8v8 a good team could easily defeat a full spike build through good monking and interrupts, 6v6 makes it even easier due to the spike damage being tighter. The fact that someone seems to think there are unstoppable spikes out there makes me serious doubt how much they actually know about tombs, or even pvp in general.

Quote:

As for fame, well I believe you said you was rank 6, the chances are you didn't take 15months to get your rank 6, I took 15 months to get to rank 3, because I refused to run gimmiks, and ran stuff that our guild thought up instead, or even ran types of builds but we've always modified them slightly, in verious degrees of sucess and failure.

The fact that you took 15 months to get 180 fame simply means you either 1) didn't do tombs very often or 2) weren't very sucessful when you did. Half my friends list are rank 8-9 people who have been playing for over a year for fun, and haven't spiked, IWAYed or farmed their rank. Most good teams in tombs can easily get 100 fame a day running balanced, this shoud be even easier if it's a guild team like you said. So perhaps you should try using a bit of common sense and logic before you start basing your allegations of "farming" around your poor sucess in tombs.

Furthermore, I see nothing wrong with FoTMs or spikes. For FoTms, there will alway be builds that are just easier for PUGs to be sucessful with, these are what will generally become the 'FoTM' builds because less experienced players can run them sucessfully. I see no real problem with this, as it allows less experienced players to have their fun and still have a chance of winning.

As for spikes, I honestly think Guild Wars pvp would be pretty boring if pressure was the only viable means of killing someone. Pure spike builds are generally pretty easy to beat if your team is competent, so I'm not really sure what the issue is. As for balanced builds that spike (not a rainbow spike - a build capable of pressure and a spike), I think it's a completely valid way of getting a kill against good monks.

Finally... the entire point to pvp, in case you were unaware, is to have fun - it's not to impress other people by playing "honorable" builds. Don't be a whiny scrub, either play HA because you enjoy it or find something else.

phoenixtech · Oct 08, 2006, 09:54 PM // 21:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inner Salbat

Huge differents between HA and GvG, the styles of play in HA will not get you to rank 1, while they may boost your rank to within reach of it for awhile /maybe/ the ultimate result is the same, HA builds in GvG will just get owned, don't believe me go look at the final match, from the GWFC iQ vs WM, they ran a gimmik for match 3 I think it was, and they just had there butts handed to them.

But never fear, your gimmiks still work in HA you can still reduce a party member to 0hp in less than microsecond, the UNBALANCE is still available for you to farm your fame points, (I have r3 it took 15 months of running non-gimmiks to get it, and my RANK means something).

LOL, having someone act so arrogant over his r3 is hilarious. It's like a bum saying that his one dollar that he begged is hard earned and means much more than you "REGULAR folks who worked gimmick jobs to earn their money."

iQ ran a gamble with dual smite AOE damage in the GL room, their gamble failed. They certainly didn't run an HA build in GvG. The fact that you cannot recognize that says volumes.

Alfrond · Oct 08, 2006, 10:33 PM // 22:33

It seems like that last page or so has been filled with personal attacks. Lets just leave each others rank alone, okay? Attacking someone else's hard work because they supposedly got it in a "gimmicky" way or because it seems insignificant to you isn't the purpose of this thread. Lets all be nice and remember that we're just talking about a computer game.